Replacement front door and side screens

General wood working tips, tricks and ideas. Anything that doesn't belong elsewhere can be discussed here.
Post Reply
Roger-M
Subscriber
Posts: 623
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:06 pm
Location: S. Devon, UK
Contact:

Replacement front door and side screens

Post by Roger-M »

We have/had a solid front door, with 2 sidescreens which are original to the house - about 40years old.
door unskinned
door unskinned
door skinned
door skinned
This photo goes back quite a few years to when I reskinned the door to give it a new lease of life. Since then the frame has rotted out at the bottom, and having just had our windows replaced in Oak grain UPVC, in a moment of weakness I allowed myself to be persuaded to replace the front door and sidescreens at the same time. The windows are great, but the door is horrid, horrid HORRID!. I can't even bring myself to post a photo at the moment!

We replaced our internal doors with oak, finished with Osmo Door Oil a few years ago, and we want the front door to go back to the original concept, but in Oak, and a front door similar to the old one but with a narrow glass panel down the middle. Sidescreens and door will be double glazed in 4/16/4mm format. The door will be 840mm wide and 50mm thick, but I would like the mullions between the door and the side panels to be a narrower profile.

Is there a standard size for timber mullions? I obviously want them to be thick enough to be sufficiently rigid to do the job, but not significantly thicker than structurally necessary. This is what I have in mind.

drawing
drawing


The door and side screen panels will be flush on the inside, but the mullions and door frame head will obviously project out the exterior. Is 30mm enough, or would I be better going for a deeper section, say 42mm as shown. And is 42mm thick enough for the narrower part on the interior of the frame?

Any pointers from those with experience in this area are gratefully received.
Cheers, Roger
woodsmith
Subscriber
Posts: 2184
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2007 8:02 am
Location: Shrewsbury
Contact:

Re: Replacement front door and side screens

Post by woodsmith »

I made something similar for myself some years ago but I’m on holiday at the moment, down in your neck of the woods I think so can’t take any pictures of it. First thing though if you don’t need to use oak, I had to because we are listed, I wouldn’t. It doesn’t take finish well and if it gets any sun it will often open up the grain and look rustic, or crap depending on your point of view. Second thing is 4-12-4 double glazed units are more thermally efficient than 4-16-4. This was very welcome news to me when I made a load of windows and only discovered I’d made the rebates too small for my normal 4-16-4 glazing after I’d assembled them. Door frame sections depend very much on the weight of the door. If you plan to make a thermally efficient door it’s likely to be thick so you end up with a thick strong frame by default. However if you fit full length sidelights like you have at the moment that obviously weakens the whole structure. I really beefed mine up dividing the light into four from memory. Because my sections had to be so thin I made the joints with Dominos which is a long story for another time. We’re off to Salcombe then hitting the beach for a week at Bigbury, if you can wait that long Until I get home think I wrote an article about constructing the door if I can find it.
Keith
Roger-M
Subscriber
Posts: 623
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:06 pm
Location: S. Devon, UK
Contact:

Re: Replacement front door and side screens

Post by Roger-M »

Thanks Keith, and "yes please" re your volunteered info on the door and sidecreen you made for yourself. I knew there would be someone around that would talk sense! There is no immediate rush, although I want to get this sorted before the autumn.

Interesting what you say about the weathering of oak. Now you mention it, I discounted oak for our kitchen bifold doors and used iroko instead for that very reason. I could always do the inside with oak and the outside in something else that weathers better. Any suggestions? I've heard that Douglas Fir is a favourite for a durable softwood, but I would need to get the frame to match the outer skin of the door - and at my time of life, durability of anything more than 15 years is probably academic. :lol: It is in full sun for part of the day, but fairly well sheltered from the rain by a canopy that projects by about 130cms. It will need a finish like Sikkens Filter 7 light oak to get it to match in with the rest of the house anyway.

The current plan is to make a door 50mm thick on a frame, skinned with 9mm hardwood or marine ply, and with shallow grooves cut in as per the original which lasted very well. Knowing what I know now, I'd have merely re-fettled the existing door and replaced the frame. :( If I don't add an oak outer skin to the door that will save a shedload of work and angst. Having at least one horizontal divider to beef up the sidescreen structure if I want to keep the profile low is a good suggestion. Or just copy the dimensions of the softwood frame that came out (110mm x 110mm less rebates), as that was sufficiently rigid without any dividers.

Enjoy your time in Devon. Salcombe is lovely, as are the walks around neighbouring Bolt Head and Bolt Tail. We are at Newton Ferrers, and we can see Bigbury and Burgh Island across the bay from the top of our road!
Cheers, Roger
Roger-M
Subscriber
Posts: 623
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:06 pm
Location: S. Devon, UK
Contact:

Re: Replacement front door and side screens

Post by Roger-M »

This article from the BRE is an interesting read which seems to suggest that 4/16/4 is the optimum configuration for thermal efficiency? Obviously sometimes other constraints will dictate that other spacings are more appropriate.
Cheers, Roger
woodsmith
Subscriber
Posts: 2184
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2007 8:02 am
Location: Shrewsbury
Contact:

Re: Replacement front door and side screens

Post by woodsmith »

I can’t find the articles I read at the time, perhaps they have now changed their minds again, but I seem to remember that it’s the introduction of argon gas that negates the need to go thicker than 12mm. From my own experience the new 12mm units don’t get condensation on them, even in the bedroom whereas the 16mm units sometimes do get a small amount.
Keith
jfc
Administrator
Posts: 10851
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 3:39 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Replacement front door and side screens

Post by jfc »

I use 45 mm for my frames and a 15mm x 38 mm plant on beads with aquamac inserted in to a saw cut on the 15mm part . I only use these sizes as its what ive seen used on the properties ive worked on over the years . Some door frames go to about 52mm thick but as most are 45mm i just do that as it works with my bulk timber order .
Ill pop a picture up of a few with 45mm frames .
jfc
Administrator
Posts: 10851
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 3:39 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Replacement front door and side screens

Post by jfc »

7331ED97-8EFB-4D2D-B311-8B0BB81A1E13.jpeg
Attachments
E2FCF7C3-A89C-4484-ADD6-22B319FD2163.jpeg
jfc
Administrator
Posts: 10851
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 3:39 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Replacement front door and side screens

Post by jfc »

77560379-6A09-4BBE-8125-61F625A3A767.jpeg
i also use 20mm units , 4 / 12 / 4 low e glass with argon gas and a supa spacer . This gives me an A grade unit as apparently u- value isn't a recognized rating any more .
Post Reply