Help Please- What size of oak planks to cut?

[oldclaypaws]

I'm looking to predetermine what sizes to cut my oak to, in order to have a stock to supply to joiners and woodworkers. I'd appreciate your suggestions as to what sizes you buy or find most useful, in terms of thickness, width and length.

I can do any within reason. I'd imagine 1" boards will be the most popular (I'm pre decimal) and was also going to 2", 3 & 4 thick, in widths up to 8" and typically no more than 3 or 4 metres.

It'll be English quarter sawn, either air or kiln dried and mainly 'character' grade. I have a sawmill and am about to start processing it. I have rather a lot. About 500 tons.

[JonR]

You could do 1 1/4" and 1 1/2" i use stock of that size in Oak now and then, stair treads for instance, wardrobe doors etc..

[york33]

In order of popularity for me.........1.5", then 1.25" followed by 2" and 2.5" less often, thicker than that makes an appearance every now and again, but not regularly.

Depends how characterful your 'character' grade is as to who might find it useful.........

[promhandicam]

Welcome to the forum. I'd say that 1" boards would be of most interest to a cabinet maker if the boards are straight and flat. Are you going to be able to achieve this with a chainsaw mill? For things like cupboard doors I machine down to 22mm from approximately 27mm but these are commercially sawn boards which are pretty consistent in thickness with only minimal machining marks. For joinery 2" is going to be the most popular but with the same caveats as above.

[tusses]

I don't know how easy it is to dry it flat, but when I wanted some 1/2 " oak, it was twice the price of 1" .. so I cut my own ! lol

[sgiandubh]

1", 1-1/4", 1-1/2" and 2" thick are likely to be most popular, with 1" and 2" thick the most commonly offered sizes from other suppliers. As others have mentioned, those oddball measurement of 1-1/4" and 1-1/2" thick (dried to a furniture grade MC) are very useful for getting stuff finished out at something close to 22 mm for door parts and similar.

These thicknesses in oak are the easiest to dry too. 3" and 4" thick oak is relatively rare, and expensive, the reason for that is oak is a refractory wood to kiln without faults of one sort or another developing, e.g., case-hardening, honeycombing, core collapse, etc. Kilning oak requires a skilled operator. Air dried oak at 4" or 6" thick may take years to dry to 20- 25% MC at the core, if it ever even dries down to that sort of MC, and 25% MC is far too wet for indoor furniture if that's your target market, but it's just about the right MC for external joinery (gazebos, gates, arbours, fencing, etc). Furniture makers making for habitable dwellings and the like will be looking for stuff at about 10 - 12% MC.

I suppose I should mention, although I suspect you already know this, but you'll need to mill roughly 10% oversize to allow for shrinkage if you plan to sell wood dried at about 10 - 12% MC. So, typically, if you plan to sell 1" thick rough sawn (RS) boards, dried, you'll need to mill at a minimum of 1-1/8" thick, 2" dried at 2-1/4", and so on. Buyers are fussy, and if you're selling RS furniture grade stuff that you're saying is 1" thick, but it's actually only 31/32" thick, or less, they'll rightly reject it, unless you're willing to sell it as 3/4" RS nominal. Better to be safe and sell 1" RS that's actually 1-1/32" thick, or more, dried. Slainte.

[oldclaypaws]

This is all quite useful. Most of it I knew and guessed, but you're confirming as much. Yes, I'd heard about allowing for shrinkage and the 1" / 1.25 / 1.5 ".

I'd point out its not a chainsaw mill, its a circular swing saw from New Zealand which does an accurate and quick cut with a very good finish, comparable to a bandsaw or better but as dimensional timber. (however the drive motor just happens to be a big Stihl MS 880). Its a new bit of kit to the market.

I've purpose built a weatherproof but ventilated large barn to accomodate all the timber, and I'm not in a hurry, so while I'll mostly do in the 1 - 2 inch range, I'll be happy to put some thicker pieces to one side and wait.

Nobody has mentioned length or width yet. I appreciate you'll probably accept 1" in most widths as it'll be biscuit jointed to the correct total width for a panel. I was thinking of a typical length of 3 Metres, that makes handling the sections of tree and transport a lot easier.

[tusses]

when I buy 1" sawn waney .. it's usually 27-30mm thick .. I wouldn't want it any thinner

[york33]

When I order a load in, it usually comes in between 5"-8" on average, with a few either way. This seems to work well for me.

As to length, I like it 8 - 9 foot long just for general stock. Longer for specific requests, though I've never needed anything longer than 11foot to make a 10 foot finished length........

Intrigued by the saw/mill, more photos please, I'm nosey like that!

[nickw]

http://turbosawmill.com/

[promhandicam]

2.7 - 3m or 9 - 10 foot is good for sawn timber as there is quite a lot of wastage. As to widths, I'd be looking at at least 12" on waney edge sawn boards as again there is a good inch off each side and usually an inch or two in the centre, so out of a 12" board I would only reckon on getting 2 pieces 4" wide.

[york33]

2.7 - 3m or 9 - 10 foot is good for sawn timber as there is quite a lot of wastage. As to widths, I'd be looking at at least 12" on waney edge sawn boards as again there is a good inch off each side and usually an inch or two in the centre, so out of a 12" board I would only reckon on getting 2 pieces 4" wide.

Good point, I was talking square edge above.

[oldclaypaws]

If I do waney edge it would likely be on the one side with a straight edge on the other. I know some people use waney edge as a feature and like it. That said, for conventional double straight edged timber, I trust its the norm to expect the sap wood to be sawn off on oak?

I have encountered another miller who cuts dimensional oak to INCLUDE sapwood. This would be OK for internal use where the buyer didn't mind it, but I'd have thought that for most discerning joiners, they would cut sapwood off and not be happy to pay for it (?).

As you expressed interest, the Turbosaw is a new versatile entry to the milling market, particularly suited to large hardwoods. Its a simple concept, but they are robust and able to do quite precise cutting in a very portable package. They're about half the price of the competing Lucas or Peterson saws, easy to sharpen, don't eat blades (the carbide tips are cheap and rarely need replacing), and they break down into six portable pieces, which are easy to store and can be carried to the tree where access is poor. I have a dodgy back but have found it quite possible to move, set up and operate it on my own. They can cope with quite mucky, seasoned and substantial hardwoods that a bandsaw would struggle with. Mine is the 8" chainsaw driven version, which can double cut to 16" width boards. The cutting is done by a 16" circular saw driven by a pulley and belt system. Their are versions with dedicated petrol motors, and all singing and dancing versions which are hydraulically operated with computer programmed cutting. On the manual versions the horizontal and vertical cuts are easily selected with a calibrated chain and winch system that moves the beam across or up and down on the timber and allows for the kerf, which is about 5mm. There is a UK distributor based in Somerset. They seem to be getting lots of interest and selling well. I'm pretty chuffed with mine and I think its a good set up for woodland owners, tree surgeons and estate managers or mobile milling businesses. Price fluctuates due to the dollar, but mine was in the £8k region, Inc Vat & delivery. http://www.turbosawmilluk.co.uk/

Here's a video of one in action. https://youtu.be/mf-tksW_Mac

[tusses]

Personally I don't like to see sap wood in fine work, unless its used in a sculpture/carving or turning etc for artistic merit, but I'm old school.

It seems more and more acceptable these days to include sap wood in every day furniture.
I guess for economical reasons, and the fact all the large forests were raped a looooongtime ago !
so we use what we have.

Also, the new generation of customers don't know the difference ! .. you tell'em its oak .. that'll doo ! lol

[oldclaypaws]

I'd like to thank you for the helpful replies, it gives me a clearer idea what everyone is looking for.

The only bit I'm a little unsure of is the sapwood on / off question. It can be quite a significant part of the tree. If there was a buyer who was less fussy, it would be a significant loss to take it all off. I guess time will tell, and if its just heartwood the price will reflect that.

[Mike Dempsey]

The sapwood of most hardwoods grown in this country is a magnet for boring beasties. As a one man alaskan sawmill owner I ocassionally sell kiln dried timer to other furnure makers apart from using it myself. All my sapwwod goes in the stove.

[oldclaypaws]

I do recall the time in my craft gallery when I noticed two large holes in the edge of a waney edged oak mirror I was selling for a local chap. There were two long horned beetles hiding behind the mirror, having just hatched out !

[tusses]

I just thought I'd do a quick search ...

Oak Furniture Land ..
IMHO it's crap .. but people buy it !...

[oldclaypaws]

I agree. Imported Chinese made oak 'furniture' would more accurately be described as matchwood models- they seem to be a laminate of small oak scraps. Its true they are solid oak, but maybe 10% glue in addition. Presumably the source is all manner of European oak offcuts and various upper branches. Doesn't say much for public taste, but then most of the herd never had any.